Talk:Guns

Intro

The first paragraph does not really feel like an intro to this page, more like an advertisement to this game, I'm not sure how to change it but I felt like I shoudl say this.

Damage Values

Are damage values for multi shot weapons (shotguns etc.) per bullet or per shot? Maybe this could be made clear in the intro for whomever knows the answer.

DPS - Damage per second column

Not sure why it didn't let me add a subject/headline.

I keep checking the guns section to get clues of which owned gun is best to use vrs a boss, what I'm really missing is a dps column, how much dmg would the weapon do if I continually used it properly (be it holding down a fast firing or fast clicking something else). I wish there was that dps table column in guns, and that it was sortable like the other columns. Including / excluding additional projectiles damage (Scrambler for example). What do you guys think?

There is a DPS column now - I'm trying to work out the exact formula used to get to that number and I'm struggling. Does anyone have the exact formula that was used?

• The formula is (magazine size * damage) / ((magazine size - 1) * fire rate + reload time). --Exschwasion (talk) 06:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Ohhh my gosh THANK YOU! I was going bonkers. All my numbers were identical except for subtracting 1 from magazine size - why do we do this? --Nicoffee (talk) 17:03, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

For the purpose of calculating DPS, we assume the reload starts as soon as the magazine is emptied, so we don't need to add the fire rate delay for the last shot (e.g. for a gun with a 3-shot magazine, we count fire -> **delay** -> fire -> **delay** -> fire -> **reload**). This doesn't apply if the reload time is lower than the fire rate; in those cases, we replace the reload time with the fire rate. --Exschwasion (talk) 01:51, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Beam Weapons - Note

I was experimenting with the Unicorn Horn. It is listed as "30" damage, and I determined it did approximately 3 (Or exactly, likely, it's hard to gauge with beam weapons, my end number was 2.987 per ammo, but 1 or 2 may have missed, not to mention the beam takes a moment to reach the enemy, so I would put a firm guess on it doing exactly 3). I then determined the fire rate to be 1 ammo per 0.1 seconds. And surprise surprise, the fire rate section was listed as 1.00. AKA, 10 ammo per 1 second.

Will experiment further with other beam weapons, but it seems the numbers listed for beam weapons in the Guns page IS accurate... for 10 ammo's worth. So fire rate and damage would be accurate per ammo if you reduce the number by 90%. Which also begs the question... which is more representative? Obviously for the average gun it would be per shot, but for beam weapons, would it be per "Shot"/ammo or per second of continuous firing?

I think we could clarify the damage column by adding "/second" to the damage number, and change the fire rate to 0.10 so it's clear it uses ammo (and damages enemies?) 10 times per second. --Exschwasion (talk) 04:20, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Gun Classes

Guns are assigned to a "class" in Gungeon. You can really just see the class as a numeric value, so i've compiled a list of most of the weapons with their corresponding class number and grouped them together: http://pastebin.com/KvgBiPVG

So, as you can see "1" is most likely Handguns, "60" is Charged Weapons, "45" is Explosive Launchers et cetera.

Why is this important? Items can affect an entire class of weapons, most notoriously the Muscle Relaxant, which applies a damage modifier to all guns of class 15. Since we don't know the actual names of the classes, we'll most likely have to come up with our own names based on the content. --HenryEx (talk) 19:49, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Weapon Order

For the benefit of future editors: by default, guns are ordered in ammonomicon order, so people can see what they're missing. (I sure wish I'd have known that before working on it...). --Roxolan0 (talk) 19:13, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Streamlining the Notes

I find the current Notes too verbose. Columns are quite narrow, so most guns end up taking 6 to 10 lines, limiting the amount of guns that are visible at a time. The visual clutter also drowns out more valuable information. The sentences do flow nicely, but I don't think that's worth the costs.

I had a go at shortening the low-quality guns in this edit (up to Quad Laser when sorted by increasing Quality). It has been partially reverted by User:Exschwasion. I agree with some of the reverts (and there are some improvements I mean to apply myself) but not all. We don't exactly have an authoritative style guide to settle this, so I thought I'd explain the format I'd prefer to use and see what the community thinks.

• Don't start Notes with "Fires..." (unless it's ambiguous).
  • Fires piercing bullets -> Piercing bullets
• Don't say "a [bullet] that..." (unless it's ambiguous, or the sentence cannot flow without it, or the bullet's appearance is very interesting; this is an extra-loose guideline).
  • Fires t-shirts that have high knockback -> High knockback
• Don't mention "enemies" (unless it's ambiguous). All negative effects can be assumed to affect enemies unless stated otherwise.
  • Chance to poison enemies. -> Chance to poison.

(also don't overuse "chance to". I haven't personally tested every status effect weapon, so I can't with confidence cull them all, but a good number of them seem guaranteed.)

• Don't use Notes to repeat things that are already in the other columns (unless they're hard to notice or truly exceptional)
  • Large, piercing, high-damage laser -> Large, piercing laser
• Linkify status effects. (Incidentally: there may be a need for a Transmogrify page or redirect. It isn't quite a status effect but the mechanic comes up a fair amount, with the same rules.)

Oh, and just for consistency, liquid weapons either fire a "stream of [liquid]" or their bullets "create a [liquid] puddle on impact".

So e.g. the old Plague Pistol's 8 lines of description

Fires bullets that leave poison goop on the ground and have a chance to poison enemies.

becomes the 4 lines

Bullets poison and create poison puddles on impact.

A number of weapons don't need Notes at all, making the ones that do much more noticeable. --Roxolan0 (talk) 21:33, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree with the first, third, and fifth points. I'm not sure about the other two; personally, I see the notes column as more of a general description of a gun that gives a feel for how the gun behaves.

In many cases, the projectiles a gun fires are important to that description; for example, I think it's worth noting that the T-Shirt Cannon fires t-shirts even if they don't really behave differently from regular bullets.

For repeating things in other columns, I think attributes can be worth repeating if they're one of the gun's defining characteristics - it's a lot easier to process when written out than it is to process a bunch of numbers. For example, I think it's worth stating that the Klobbe rapidly fires low-damage bullets even though that information is in other columns.

--Exschwasion (talk) 19:11, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

DPS

I've been thinking of adding DPS stats to more weapons, and eventually as an extra column on this table. I've often felt a need for it. I know that many guns' DPS are deceptively low or high, but not the majority (especially against bosses, where spread is much less of a factor). Checking that the community won't reject it if I do the work. (Once bitten, twice shy.) --Roxolan0 (talk) 21:33, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Page Name

I believe it would be better if this page’s name was “Weapons” and not “Guns”. Many of the weapons listed here are *not* guns, like Casey, Cobalt Hammer, and Blasphemy, among others. It just seems strange to generalize all the weapons as ‘guns’. Even though the weapons are mainly guns, it just is strange to see a sword and then it says it’s a gun when it isn’t. -Myriad453

Broken Link

Please fix the Betrayer’s Shield link! I have no idea why it won’t work.

Damage Formatting

Something that is find frustrating about the guns page is that when you sort by damage, a lot of guns end up not being sorted due to having some level to their effects, or being a multi-shot gun. For guns that have multiple levels of damage (such as megahand), this is fine as there isn't a clear way to rank these (although the list may be more helpful if they are ranked by the most damage that they can do)

However, for shotguns and other guns which have damage in the form

3.5x10 (35)

I propose this is switched to

35 (3.5x10)

To make it clearer the damage output of a gun per shot, as opposed to per bullet, and thus to aid in sorting by damage.

--thepolm3 (talk) 13:25, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

This makes a lot of sense, feel free to go through and implement this. --Exschwasion (talk) 08:16, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Ok wrote a quick script (3 times) and implemented the change. At this stage my only problem with the page is the somewhat inconsistent formatting of every other damage number, but at least now you can ge t a better feel for the power of shotguns.

--thepolm3 (talk) 15:06, 2 December 2018 (UTC)